Financial Planning: Why it’s NOT All About Investments

By Dean Barber

January 21, 2021

Financial Planning: Why it’s NOT All About Investments

Key Points – Financial Planning: Why it’s NOT All About Investments:

  • 2021 Stock Market Predictions
  • 2020 Market Review
  • Financial Planning Process
  • The Art of Financial Planning
  • 23 minute read | 39 minutes to listen

What’s ahead for the stock market in 2021? In order to answer that question, we have to look back at 2020. Join Dean Barber and Bud Kasper as they discuss their 2021 market predictions and look back at 2021.

Educational Series  Complimentary Consultation

Financial Planning: Why it’s NOT All About Investments

Dean Barber: Thanks so much for joining us here on America’s Wealth Management Show. I’m your host, Dean Barber, along with Bud Kasper. All right, Bud.

Bud Kasper: Dean, we got a good topic today. I’m kind of excited to get this show started.

Dean Barber: Well, so we officially now have a new president of the United States, President Joe Biden. That’s a done deal.

2021 Stock Market Predictions

So, we’re here now to make our 2021 stock market predictions. And I am spending the month of January working remotely down in Florida, where I’m close to my two sons that live down in Tampa. And I just so happened to be walking along the beach, and I found a crystal ball, and I consulted this crystal ball for the 2021 market predictions, Bud, and it says that this prediction is guaranteed.

Bud Kasper: Wow. Did it charge by the minute or the hour?

Dean Barber: No, no, no. It was free.

Bud Kasper: Free.

Dean Barber: Yeah.

Bud Kasper: Hold on a minute, I got to get down to Florida.

Dean Barber: So here’s what this crystal ball says. It guarantees that nobody can predict what’s going to happen in 2021. In fact, it said, if you can’t go back and explain what happened in 2020 and the madness that occurred, there’s no way you can predict 2021. That is the crystal ball’s guaranteed 2021 prediction. Bud, what do you think?

Staying Educated

Bud Kasper: I think it’s a hundred percent accurate. It is funny, though, because you and I have to do so much incredible reading because we’re searching out some excellent information that we can perhaps take action on.

As we look at all the predictions coming out there from notaries, such as Jeremy Siegel, the Wharton professor, who wrote the book Stocks for the Long Run, and people like that are giving us predictions. And quite frankly, as long as you and I have been in business combined, what? Seventy years or something like that.

Dean Barber: It’s a long time.

Bud Kasper: You have to go in and take a lot of this with a grain of salt. Then again, you’re always saying in the back of your mind, “Ah, I’d better read this, I’d better listen to this because maybe there’s something I haven’t thought of.” And I think that’s probably the right approach. We want to be open-minded.

Making Predictions is Incredibly Difficult

Dean Barber: Well, obviously, Bud. But the bottom line is predictions are very, very difficult. So I’m going to read the headlines of four different articles that all came out just within the last few days. The first one I want to read is, “The wealthy are investing like it’s a market bubble or at least a near market bubble.” What’s that tell us?

Wall Street analysts make a big S&P 500 call for 2021, but market history says, ignore them.” These market analysts predict more good gains for 2021, but history says to ignore them, especially coming off the back of an unexplained year like 2020.

The Ugly V

And then you have another one here that says, “The V-shaped recovery is in tatters, and Wall Street doesn’t seem to care.” That’s from economist Stephen Roach. Now here’s your buddy, Jeremy Siegel, that you mentioned a minute ago, Bud. Wharton’s Jeremy Siegel. “The Dow could easily tack on another 10% to 15% but warns of a near-term setback.

Now, what do you do? The wealthy are investing like there’s a bubble. Wall Street analysts are expecting significant returns this year. V-shaped recoveries in tatters, according to Stephen Roach. Jeremy Siegel says watch out for a near-term setback. So, okay. That proves my point that the crystal ball I found on the beach down here in Florida is right. You cannot predict this stuff.

The Amount of Information is Overwhelming

So what does it mean, Bud? You and I have been living with this instant in-your-face information, 24-hour news cycles, social media, and online things today. The amount of information coming at us to make investment decisions for our clients is now more prevalent. And it’s more complicated than ever before, and it’s easy to get derailed or sidetracked and make investment decisions or calls based on news headlines.

We see it happening all the time, Bud, with our individual clients, but we also see it happening as they come to us for the first time. That’s kind of what they’ve been used to doing, but once we get a chance to take them through our Guided Retirement System™, once we get an opportunity to identify what we called last week, your Goldilocks portfolio.

The portfolio that’s just right for you, based on your immediate, intermediate, and long-term goals and the resources you have to reach those goals. We can define what your money needs to do. Then we can design your Goldilocks portfolio, and then, you know what? All these news things, they don’t matter anymore, Bud.

Building Financial Plans to Weather the Storm

Bud Kasper: Right, and I’m sure our listeners, our faithful listeners, are saying, well, isn’t that what you’ve always talked about? That since it is not predictable that we have to build portfolios that weather the storm, but more importantly, don’t take any more risks than is necessary to complete your plan.

Well, that’s always easy to say and sometimes more challenging to do, but in the environment that we’re in now, after coming off of two incredible years of 2019 and 2020, common sense tells you there’s going to be some disruption. Well, we had the most significant disruption that I’ve seen in my lifetime, of course, with this COVID 19 thing.

And so that’s a great test, isn’t it, Dean? Because if you didn’t make any adjustments to your portfolio and you were able to live with the portfolio and then got the benefits when the market came back, and you’re good with that, then you’re probably all right. If you weren’t good with it, then you’ve got to build in the contingencies.

Dean Barber: Absolutely. So, here’s the deal. Those of you that are out there thinking, “Okay, what should I be doing right now? Where should I be investing my money?” Check out our latest writings on where you should invest your money and finding the good in 2020

Also, I encourage you to schedule a complimentary consultation right here. We can consult with you via phone, virtual meeting, or meet in person and talk about your personal situation and explain to you what our process is for finding that Goldilocks portfolio. And the idea here is that we remove the two biggest emotions in investing: fear and greed. 2021 is going to be unpredictable, so let us build a plan for you.

You Can’t Predict What the Stock Market Will Do

Dean Barber: We’re talking about how it’s impossible to predict what the stock market’s going to do. And I made a joke in the opening segment that I found a crystal ball on the beach down here in Florida, and it told me that they guaranteed that you couldn’t predict 2021 if you can’t explain what happened in 2020.

2020 in Review

Now, let’s go back and review that real quick, Bud. If you think about 2020, we entered the year with the lowest unemployment in the US history. The economy was on fire, incredible numbers. Right?

Bud Kasper: Right.

Dean Barber: And then we had COVID-19. And then we had the fastest peak to trough drop in the stock market in stock market history.

Bud Kasper: Right, by 35%.

Dean Barber: And then we had the fastest recovery in stock market history. And yet, we are here in the first month of 2021. Markets are still hitting new highs, and it looks like we’re probably going to have GDP that’s going to still be below where it was in January of last year.

Bud Kasper: Right. That’s right.

Price to Earnings Ratios 

Dean Barber: And so, we’ve got a price to earnings ratio that you and I talked about last week above the price to earnings ratio on stocks that peaked, the highest point in the history of the market used to be January of 2000. Well, we’re breaking that record now too, Bud.

Bud Kasper: Exactly.

Dean Barber: If we look at the stock market, if you invested in the S&P 500 or an S&P 500 index fund or ETF or whatever on January 1, 2000, and you held that for ten years, you come out with a total return of a negative 9% over ten years, Bud.

Bud Kasper: So much for buy and hold.

Unseen Territory

Dean Barber: And so I say that, not to scare people and not to say that we’re in the tech bubble of the 2000s, but I can tell you that we’re in uncharted territory right now. You and I have not seen anything like this in our lifetimes, Bud. And you’re 36, 37, 38 years; I don’t know.

Bud Kasper: 38.

Dean Barber: 38 years. I’m going on my 33rd year here. So, no gosh, 34th year. My goodness. It’s been a long time. Anyway. The thing is that we see something that we haven’t seen. So, what I think is critical for us to talk about today is the reality of this.

All-Time Highs All-Around

First of all, if we’re at all-time highs in the market, which we are, if we’re at an all-time price to earnings ratio highs in the market, which we are, we have to ask ourselves a question, what’s the future bring?

I think the question that every person out there should be asking themselves is, “Am I going to rely on myself to get me through this?” “Am I going to rely on a rookie that may be in the business for three, four, or five years?” Or do you want an experienced team who has been through these cycles before and focus on helping people near retirement or in retirement?

Which one of those three individuals will you count on? You, the rookie, or the team of individuals that have been through this before with an entire focus on people that are near retirement or in retirement? 

A Conversation with an Epidemiologist

Bud Kasper: Yeah, no doubt. Let me tell you a little story, Dean. When COVID hit, and remember at that time, it was just known as the novel coronavirus. We didn’t hear the word COVID-19 for another week. When that was happening, I called a client of mine. Now this gentleman happens to be an epidemiologist. I managed his mom and dad’s money for over 36 years before they passed.

And so I called him, and I said, “Doctor, I’ve done my homework. I went back, and I looked at SARS, I looked at MERS, I looked at Ebola, and I went back to the Spanish flu to see how markets reacted during that timeframe.” And I said, “I need help, in your experience…” By the way, this gentleman works in his laboratory directly with Moderna in Gilead Science.

And I said to him, “How bad do you think this is going to be?” He said, “Bud, I really can’t tell at this particular point, but if I had to give you my best guess, I think this thing is going to be really ugly.” Now, remember this was right around February 23rd that I’m having this conversation.

Staying Informed 

Therefore, we felt it was incumbent upon us at that time to share our information with our clients and to make sure that we had portfolios that could be vetted through those specific periods that I just talked about, SARS, MERS, Ebola, so that we could do the best possible job in protecting our client’s assets and not worry so much about the growth at that particular time because you can’t get one in front of the other.

Dean Barber: And you know what? That was prudent.

Bud Kasper: Absolutely. And by the way, we even had to make further adjustments to ensure that we were accomplishing what we know our clients want, and what does everybody want? They want no downside and all the upside, right? Well, that’s not going to happen exactly that way, but there are actions that we can take that most certainly can have a significant positive outcome for portfolio development.

Portfolio Development is Critical

Dean Barber: Well, you’re exactly right. And the portfolio development is a critical component here, but it’s not the only component. You and I know that. You and I know that the financial planning techniques we employ on top of portfolio development make the magic here. That’s what really makes it happen.

Alpha, Beta, and Now Gamma

We’ve referenced this article from Morningstar titled Alpha, Beta, and Now Gamma, going back to probably 2014 or so. And the thesis behind this particular white paper, this research paper, is that the application of five different financial planning techniques and going agnostic of portfolio allocation can increase the income produced on a portfolio by 22.6% per year.

In other words, if you could get four, now you’re getting a little over 5% per year in income, and it’s achieved through financial planning techniques. They’re achieved through strategies like liability-driven investing, the dynamic withdrawal strategy, the total wealth asset allocation, the asset location, and withdrawal sourcing. All these things are part of comprehensive financial planning, and all are part of our Guided Retirement System™.

Planning for the Unpredictable

So if we understand that and if we understand that markets are in uncharted territory here, doesn’t it make sense that you should step back and say, “All right, I’m going to cover all my bases here. I need to make sure that regardless of what happens, I have taken every step to help ensure that my financial future is what I want it to be.”

It will go so far beyond just the investment or only the portfolio. It’s part of our Guided Retirement System™. Schedule a complimentary consultation with us right here. We can visit with you by phone, virtual meeting, or we can sit down face to face. 

We can walk you through our Guided Retirement System™ once we understand your specific situation and what you’re trying to accomplish. Near term, intermediate-term, and long term objectives and review all the resources you have, including your Social Security. We do a thorough look at the taxes and everything else to put together your plan to give you the highest probability of success in achieving all of the goals important to you.

The Planning Process and Probability of Success

Bud Kasper: You know, in the planning process, I think one of the things you need to know is that we calculate the probability of success on every portfolio, every plan that we create, and that helps our clients understand whether or not they have a chance of getting the results that they want.

Dean Barber: Well, and I think the cool thing there, Bud, is once we calculate that probability of success, we can stress test those portfolios. We can take those portfolios and go back through the Dot Com Bubble. We can go back through the financial crisis. 

You can see the reality of how your portfolio would have reacted during those times. It’s not saying that that’s precisely what’s going to happen moving forward, but it can be a good indication of what is likely to occur so that you go into this with your eyes wide open.

If you can’t explain what happened in 2020, don’t try to think that you’re going to be able to predict what’s going to happen in 2021.

Bud’s Take on 2021

Dean Barber: All right, Bud, give me your best 2021 prediction. 

Bud Kasper: Okay, I think it’s going to be very bumpy for the first six months of this year and the six months, of course, is not a hard number from that perspective. I think we’ve got some economic challenges that we have to deal with presently. One of the things that irritate me the most is the positive GDP for the quarter from China. 

Here’s the country that gave us the virus, and they’re positive while all the other countries are suffering the pains of not having an economic growth factor. I’ve never tried to fool myself or clients into thinking that everything’s going to be rosy. I think it’s best to be overly cautious and then smooth into what we believe would be. 

I’m telling the clients. I think we’re going to be somewhere between eight and 9% positive on the year, but it’s probably going to be more of a second-half because we’re going to have to have the Biden policies be able to settle in a little bit. People get a little more confident about what’s happening economically and get the vaccine out there. Dean, you and I know that 70% of GDP is based on consumption. 

Consumers and GDP

We have people that have been at home, not spending money, and therefore, if they’re financially in pretty decent shape, they’re saving money. And so when things open up again, I think this economy is going to roar, and people are pent up, and they want to go out and enjoy the things they’ve enjoyed in the past. And if that happens, that should give us an economic boost going into the end of the year. That’s where I’m counting up for about an 8%, maybe 9% return.

More Stimulus?

Dean Barber: Okay. Let’s ask a simple question here, Bud. I agree with all of your logic, and one of the things that I’d like to say here is that we have a caveat, Bud. That caveat is we’ve got a Federal Reserve that is very accommodative here, and we’ve also got a Democratic-controlled House, Senate, and White House that I believe will continue to throw additional stimulus at this economy.

Bud Kasper: I agree.

Dean Barber: I believe that that’s what the markets are counting on.

Bud Kasper: They are.

Can the Market Sustain?

Dean Barber: And the question is, how far can this go? We discussed this last week, but I think it bears repeating. Even though we are at the highest price to earnings ratios that we have seen, when you look at the broad-based markets, does that necessarily mean that a crash is imminent? No, it doesn’t. 

Well, you could have the earnings of these companies grow into the prices, but if the earnings have to grow into the prices, does that not dampen the ability for prices to continue to escalate? When you think about the elevated price to earnings ratios and stocks, wealth earnings will go up. Are the stock prices going to go up? And the answer should be not really or maybe not. But we have this phenomenon out there where people don’t have any choice. Where else are they going to go?

Bud Kasper: That’s right.

Dean Barber: If you look at fixed income and look at the 10-year treasury yielding just over 1%, you look at the bank accounts and CDs delivering next to nothing. You can have equities and decent dividend-paying stock portfolios that give you 3%, 3.5%, 4% dividends. 

Wouldn’t I rather own that with that dividend to be able to get some income than own CDs or long term treasuries? And what’s the outlook for those? I don’t think we can look at our portfolio construction moving forward over the next several years in the same way that we’ve looked at it in the last decade, Bud, would you agree with that?

Stress Testing Your Portfolio and Your Financial Plan

Bud Kasper: I agree. You can’t be Pollyannish about any of this. And since we represent, for the lion’s share of our practice, retirees, the protection of the money must be just as important as the returns we hope to get on it as well. And therefore, the only way we can build that confidence is to do what I said earlier and vet an existing portfolio through more difficult periods. 

We have the technology to be able to do that, to be able to demonstrate what your experience would have been, as an example, in the great recession or during the Dot Com Bubble, as you suggested, Dean. During the various black swan events that the market has experienced over the last 100 years.

Outside of that, some things have changed in terms of investment selections that we can utilize. And many times, that allows us to build better portfolios and capture returns that you wouldn’t get in the broad base market, but you can get in specific sectors that we might enjoy.

The Positive Effects of Financial Planning

Dean Barber: Yep. I would agree with that, Bud. I’ll tell you, there’s one thing in our world today that has not changed at all, and that is the truth of the positive effects of financial planning. 

When you start thinking about long-term, forward-looking tax reduction strategies, when you start thinking about Social Security maximization strategies, those two things alone, Bud, can add well over $100,000 of additional spendable money to a person’s retirement. Then when you start sprinkling in the other things that you’re talking about right now. Now you can make a significant difference and take some risk off of your portfolio as far as what you might have to if you didn’t employ those techniques.

The Art of Financial Planning

Those techniques are part of our business, Bud. They are the art. There’s a science behind what we do, but there’s an art to it. And that art is what I believe makes the difference. It’s all part of our Guided Retirement System™. Anybody that’s listening right now that wants to see what that looks like, you can schedule a complimentary consultation with us right here. We can do that consultation through a phone call. We don’t have financial products to sell and we work in a fiduciary capacity, meaning by law, 100% of the time, your interest has to be ahead of ours. 

Let’s talk about what you’ve got going on, your short-term, your intermediate, and your long-term goals. We can talk about your resources, review your Social Security claiming strategies, and look at those tax situations so that we can help you mitigate taxes throughout your retirement. Let us show you how we can bring clarity into a very cloudy future with many uncertainties. 

Educational Resources

We know these planning techniques, Bud, make a significant difference in a person’s overall ability to not just get to retirement but to get through retirement. We also have a lot of reading material in our insights section, educational series, and other things you can do to educate yourself. Do everything possible, not based on an emotion of fear or greed, but based on logic, science, and the art of financial planning. 

Bud Kasper: Yeah. We want all of our listeners to experience their one best financial life, Dean. 

Dean Barber: Oh, there’s no question about it, Bud, and what does that mean? When you and I look at a person’s financial plan, we understand that it’s so much more than just about money. It’s about life. And when we get that art of financial planning done right, it brings your life together with your money in a way that provides that clarity. When you have the clarity, all of a sudden, now you’ve got confidence that you’re in control, and that is where you get an opportunity to live that one best financial life, Bud. 

Bud Kasper: Absolutely. Our Guided Retirement System™ is a proprietary system that we’ve created for our retirees. Come and join us. Let us show you exactly how that works. 

Dean Barber: You’re listening to America’s Wealth Management Show. I’m Dean Barber, along with Bud Kasper. We’re talking about how it’s impossible to predict 2020; however, the possibilities of getting clarity in your financial future are there with Guided Retirement System™. 

Reviewing the Headlines

We’re talking about predictions for 2021. We started by talking about some of the headlines out there just over the last few days. One of them says, “The wealthy are investing like a market bubble is here, or at least near.” Another one says, “Wall Street analysts make a big S&P 500 call for 2021, but market history says to ignore them because they’re almost always wrong.” 

Then another one says, “The V-shaped recovery is in tatters, and Wall Street doesn’t seem to care.” And Jeremy Siegel says, “The Dow could tack on easily another 10 to 15% this year, but warns of a near term setback.” Every one of these articles, Bud, goes back to one thing that drives the stock market higher, and that is the thought process that there is a guaranteed backstop in place, and that is the federal government and the Federal Reserve. What do you think about that?

The National Debt

Bud Kasper: I think there’s $23 trillion worth of indebtedness on this nation’s back, and we’re going to be adding more to it this year. At some point, that’s going to impact the dollar, and that very well could upset the applecart. It’s not going to be that way, I don’t think, for the next 12 months, but it’s pretty serious, and I think needs to be understood. 

I wrote an article, Dean, and you might remember. It was right around the 1st of March, and I had a little fun with the title and called it, Who do you LUV? I underlined the W of the word “who” and I spelled “love” L U V. Each of those, as I explained in the article, are shapes of market recovery. Now everybody says, “We’ve had a V-shaped recovery.” Well, you put it on its chart. I’m going to tell you if that’s a V-shaped recovery, it’s the ugliest V I’ve ever seen.

The Checkmark

Dean Barber: It’s like a big checkmark.

Bud Kasper: That’s what, it’s a checkmark. So one client says, “Well, it looks more like the Nike swoosh.” Whatever it most certainly has not been a V. But I think in the bigger concept of what’s happening globally, we’re not alone. All these other nations are suffering. They’re waiting, actually, for us.

The Global Economy Needs a Global Solution

I saw an article yesterday, Dean, that Russia has a vaccine that they call Sputnik, and they’ve sent it down to Argentina. What a great place to try out your drug, right? I had heard very little about other countries that were coming up, outside of England, with the Oxford deal that they had there. But what I was getting at is we’re all in the same boat with this. We are in a global economy. 

Therefore, we have a common problem. We need a common solution, even though there might be different aspects of that. But most certainly, those are the things that have to happen for this economy to regain a footing. Could we have a correction? Absolutely, we could have a correction. And many times that’s cleansing, many times that’s helpful. You just have to be prepared for it and make some alterations from time to time to make sure you’re either protecting more or taking advantage of what could be promising in the future.

What is a Market Correction?

Dean Barber: Well, let’s talk about what a market correction is, Bud, and let’s talk about how often market corrections typically occur. If you think about what a market correction is, it’s a drop of 10% from a prior high. And those typically occur about every 12 to 15 months, so they’re very common. 

The more important question is, how can you identify when you’re in the middle of a simple correction, where there’s nothing needed to be done other than wait for that correction to end? Or if you’re at the beginning of a longer-term or a sharper, more like a bear market, 20, 30, 40% decline? Like what we saw happen in the Dot Com Bubble, the prolonged bear market there, the prolonged bear market of the Great Recession. 

Whether you get a quick bear market, like what we had in March of last year with COVID-19, how do you identify the difference as an individual investor? And how do you decide what you’re going to do if we have that correction or are going into that bear market?

How Do You Identify the Correction?

Bud, here’s what I think the answer is, and I’m going to tie this back to something that has nothing to do with investing. I’m going to tie it back to an airline pilot. When they get into that cockpit, they have a checklist. They have all the potential scenarios of things that could go wrong, and they have a checklist to follow on that. 

And that’s what our Guided Retirement System™ is all about. It’s a series of checklists. It’s a series of “what ifs?” What if this happens? What if that happens? So that whenever we do have those events, we’ve already thought it through. We already have our game plan in place. Now yes, that may be a game plan that comes out of left field, but we know what the game plan is, and we know what we need to do to make sure that our clients stay on track for the successful retirement they want to have.

Confidence in Your Financial Plan

Bud Kasper: Absolutely. And that gets back to what you said in the last segment, that we want confidence, we want control. And many times, you feel out of control, and market news seems so negative and everything. We’re all subject to that. A client the other day said, “Bud, I’m frightened about what’s going to happen in the next few months. What should I do?” I said, “We should do what makes you feel most comfortable. If you think we should get more safety into your portfolio at this time, well certainly I should accommodate that and give you our best take as to what’s going to happen when we come out of it.”

If You’re Not Comfortable with Your Financial Plan, It’s Not the Right Plan

Dean Barber: Bud, I think what you’re making is a good point, right? I could tell you this, and I can know that I’m going to be correct. But if what I’m right about, you’re not comfortable with, it’s never going to work. I had a similar conversation last year, and this was coming up to the election.

I had a client that was all freaked out about the election and what’s going to happen if Democrats take control. And that was just his view, not mine or whatever, but anyway, he said, “I’m just nervous.” 

I said, “Let’s just do something simple.” I said, “Without messing up the integrity of your plan, let’s take two years’ worth of your needed income from the portfolio, and let’s just set that aside in an ultra-safe investment. Somewhere that we know for the next two years, we don’t have to touch or do anything with the rest of the portfolio. 

That we’ve got that two years’ worth of income set there.” And I said, “And if things go well and we make a little bit more money, we’ll just add to that.” And he said, “You know what? I would feel comfortable knowing that my next two years of income were in something where, if the markets were down or whatever, I was going to be forced to sell something if it was down or anything like that.” And you know what, from a psychological standpoint, that was the perfect thing to do.

Feeling Confident in Your Financial Plan is Crucial

But the point is when you have that financial plan, and you know what the ultimate allocation needs to be, you can create these scenarios. And you can create scenarios that are not only right but also comfortable for your psyche. And that’s where we talk about eliminating the two strongest emotions, and financial planning does that. Those two strongest emotions, of course, are fear and greed.

We do that through our Guided Retirement System™, a proprietary system to help get you, not just to retirement, but through retirement. I want to offer you a complimentary consultation, which you can schedule right here. We can visit with you by phone, or through a virtual meeting, or in person. Whatever you prefer, however, you prefer to do it. 

Find More Education from Us

Bud Kasper: Yeah, we built this program around education, and, boy, do we have the material for you. You need to go to the website, understand what’s there. We have a fabulous podcast series that you could join, on a wide variety of subjects with a wide variety of experts, that you could hear interviewed. And I would strongly suggest you become more familiar with that.

Dean Barber: And of course, The Guided Retirement Show is the name of that podcast. Just go to The Guided Retirement Show, find it on your favorite podcast app, YouTube or And also, while you’re out there, we are doing educational series throughout the year, and they are virtual so that you can do them from the comfort of your home. 

We appreciate you being with us here today on America’s Wealth Management Show. I’m your host, Dean Barber, along with Bud Kasper. Everybody stay healthy, stay safe. We’ll be back with you next week, same time, same place.

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